Talk:Achievements Dev: Difference between revisions

Lots of stuff, some new, some old... fuck making a billion atomic edits.
(Is it time for Seiyuu Achievements?)
(Lots of stuff, some new, some old... fuck making a billion atomic edits.)
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* Chroniko first came up with a suggestion for a creator achievement for a seiyuu, Wakamoto, long time ago, and just now I suggested HanaKana. I could think of ten or even twenty more seiyuu to have achievements for without much effort if I wanted to. Maybe we should get a separate Seiyuu Achievements section, separate from the Creator Achievements? It's kind of different in concept, so I think we shouldn't keep them together, and it opens up space for more Seiyuu Achievements for popular seiyuu. While I don't plan to speak for anyone in charge of actually implementing the code to pick seiyuu roles up (sup [[User:Ommina|Ommina]]), this doesn't sound like it's terribly hard to implement. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:14, 10 February 2014 (CET)
* Chroniko first came up with a suggestion for a creator achievement for a seiyuu, Wakamoto, long time ago, and just now I suggested HanaKana. I could think of ten or even twenty more seiyuu to have achievements for without much effort if I wanted to. Maybe we should get a separate Seiyuu Achievements section, separate from the Creator Achievements? It's kind of different in concept, so I think we shouldn't keep them together, and it opens up space for more Seiyuu Achievements for popular seiyuu. While I don't plan to speak for anyone in charge of actually implementing the code to pick seiyuu roles up (sup [[User:Ommina|ommina]]), this doesn't sound like it's terribly hard to implement. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:14, 10 February 2014 (CET)
** I'd like to note that I still think we want to restrict seiyuu achievements to shows where their part is at least at secondary cast level. Otherwise it's just insane, nobody's going to ever legitly get high-level badges unless they specifically hunt for anime with the specific seiyuus we list, and that's just retarded. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:14, 10 February 2014 (CET)
** I'd like to note that I still think we want to restrict seiyuu achievements to shows where their part is at least at secondary cast level. Otherwise it's just insane, nobody's going to ever legitly get high-level badges unless they specifically hunt for anime with the specific seiyuus we list, and that's just retarded. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:14, 10 February 2014 (CET)
* Just to revisit the "achievements can't be assigned to tags" issue (in the other section) since it's been almost a year since it was last mentioned: I'm pretty sure nothing has changed on that front, especially with the new tag system rather around the corner, but can we have that as a high priority feature, achievements-wise? It doesn't need to be implemented ASAP or anything, but it's really high on my wishlist for the achievements system, so next time someone is going to implement a random feature can we have this at least considered? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
** Moved the suggestion, copyedited for clarity. I talked to [[User:Ommina|ommina]] and he says it MAY happen. No promises were given but he says it's doable. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)


= New Anime/Creator Achievements suggestions =
= New Anime/Creator Achievements suggestions =
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* Also perhaps a separate badge for everything [http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=40 Hayao Miyazaki] has ever worked on, including his early stuff? --[[User:Megumi komeshi|Megumi komeshi]] 01:43, 1 October 2012 (CEST)
* Also perhaps a separate badge for everything [http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=40 Hayao Miyazaki] has ever worked on, including his early stuff? --[[User:Megumi komeshi|Megumi komeshi]] 01:43, 1 October 2012 (CEST)
** The overlap with Ghibli is too big. This might be one to keep in mind for after a system rewrite allows more advanced stuff, but right now there is too little a point, I think. Watching his movies is essentially two achievements for the price of one. :) Though, of course, with how prolific he is, that isn't necessarily a big problem. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
** The overlap with Ghibli is too big. This might be one to keep in mind for after a system rewrite allows more advanced stuff, but right now there is too little a point, I think. Watching his movies is essentially two achievements for the price of one. :) Though, of course, with how prolific he is, that isn't necessarily a big problem. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
*** The more advanced system ain't happening so this goes back to being an idea. I'm not sure I like it, but whatever. Just saying it to "deshoot up" (??) the idea I shot down earlier. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)




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** I don't know what to file this under, tbh. I'm leaving it under anime/creator for now. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 04:16, 13 October 2012 (CEST)
** I don't know what to file this under, tbh. I'm leaving it under anime/creator for now. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 04:16, 13 October 2012 (CEST)
*** There is currently no way to award watching anime that have a certain tag. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET)
*** There is currently no way to award watching anime that have a certain tag. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET)
**** There might be one in the future, see the other section. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)




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** Context: my suggestion was originally said in response to the noitaminA suggestion above. [[User:Worf|Worf]]'s response below is a copy of the one he gave there, just for good measure. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
** Context: my suggestion was originally said in response to the noitaminA suggestion above. [[User:Worf|Worf]]'s response below is a copy of the one he gave there, just for good measure. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
** There is currently no way to award watching anime that have a certain tag. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET).
** There is currently no way to award watching anime that have a certain tag. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET).
*** There might be one in the future, see the other section. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)




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** I agree! Not to mention (most of them) are really good! --[[User:JQF|JQF]]
** I agree! Not to mention (most of them) are really good! --[[User:JQF|JQF]]
*** There is currently no way to award watching anime that have a certain tag. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET)
*** There is currently no way to award watching anime that have a certain tag. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET)
 
**** There might be one in the future, see the other section. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)
 
* Just to revisit the "achievements can't be assigned to tags" issue (see above) since it's been almost a year since it was last mentioned: I'm pretty sure nothing has changed on that front, especially with the new tag system rather around the corner, but can we have that as a high priority feature, achievements-wise? It doesn't need to be implemented ASAP or anything, but it's really high on my wishlist for the achievements system, so next time someone is going to implement a random feature can we have this at least considered? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)




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* I'm... not quite sure how this hasn't been suggested before, but I'd like to see an achievement for SHAFT shows under Shinbou's style. I took the liberty of checking the entire list of shows that credit Shinbou as either director or chief director, and the list of shows with Animation Work credits for SHAFT, and of crossing them over to see the results. It appears to me that the shows they create are only memorable in any manner (good or bad, depending on your taste) when SHAFT is doing what Shinbou wants, and when Shinbou can make SHAFT do what he wants. The rest is like Evangelion without Anno Hideaki; it might be good, but it's radically different. As such, I'd like a badge for shows that fulfill both: 1) Animation Work credits for SHAFT; and 2) either Direction or Chief Direction credits for Shinbou. Opinions on this (rather unusual, I know) suggestion? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 04:08, 24 February 2013 (CET)
* I'm... not quite sure how this hasn't been suggested before, but I'd like to see an achievement for SHAFT shows under Shinbou's style. I took the liberty of checking the entire list of shows that credit Shinbou as either director or chief director, and the list of shows with Animation Work credits for SHAFT, and of crossing them over to see the results. It appears to me that the shows they create are only memorable in any manner (good or bad, depending on your taste) when SHAFT is doing what Shinbou wants, and when Shinbou can make SHAFT do what he wants. The rest is like Evangelion without Anno Hideaki; it might be good, but it's radically different. As such, I'd like a badge for shows that fulfill both: 1) Animation Work credits for SHAFT; and 2) either Direction or Chief Direction credits for Shinbou. Opinions on this (rather unusual, I know) suggestion? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 04:08, 24 February 2013 (CET)
** Not doable at the moment. Well, it would be doable but someone would have to create that list manually. And keep it updated. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:33, 28 February 2013 (CET)
** Not doable at the moment. Well, it would be doable but someone would have to create that list manually. And keep it updated. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:33, 28 February 2013 (CET)
*** You mean like [[Achievements_Dev/Shinbou-SHAFT_Achievement|this]]? :) --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 05:30, 28 February 2013 (CET)
*** Moved the rest of this discussion to a more fitting section, namely that of the denied ideas since that's what a talk on IRC made clear. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)
**** Yeah, except your list isn't very useful. And keeping it up2date and feeding it to the achievement system automatically is also not going to work. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 22:56, 28 February 2013 (CET)
*** '''TOTALLY UNRELATED''' to the creator math idea but still on Shinbou and SHAFT: is it currently possible to limit an achievement by date? If not, I'll just file it as a feature request. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)
***** Yeah, uhh, do you want it done manually or automatically? If you say it needs to be done manually and then complain it won't work automatically, you're not making much sense. If the problem is I'm using names rather than IDs, however, that was simply how I had made the list back when I needed it; converting it to IDs is a bit on the annoying monkey work side, but it needs to be done just once and it's not a lot of entries anyway. I still would rather simply use some manner of query to make it all automatic (are you ''sure'' we can't get that to be automatic?), but hey, can't have a party every day. (If all else fails, just make a badge for either, or maybe one for each.) --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:02, 1 March 2013 (CET)
****** The problem is that the script responsible for the badges can't handle such complex cases. It can handle either "a list of AID", "all related anime to a given AID" or "all anime with a certain creditID for a given creatorID". So someone would have to provide a list of AIDs that would need to be hardcoded into the config. This method would mean that manual updating of the config is required - every time a new anime (or credit) gets added that would fall into this group. This is simply not practical (you remember the people complaining that some creator badges had a wrong count because some new anime wasn't included? That's why.) Of course this could be made automatic, like it was done for Creators. But you should be well aware of the problems that come with trying to kick other people into doing some work. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET)
******* Yeah, there's a problem with that kicking people into work thing. I'm afraid I can't really help there. Can we have that sort of feature into a wishlist, if nothing else? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)




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* And a [http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=718 Gainax] studio (as 製作 animation production) one. --[[User:Ryuurei|Ryuurei]]
* And a [http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=718 Gainax] studio (as 製作 animation production) one. --[[User:Ryuurei|Ryuurei]]
** This is a case similar to the SHAFT one. There were a select few brains making Gainax good. Today they're with Khara or Trigger and Gainax is a ghost of itself. I'd sooner prefer an achievement on the creators that made Gainax good, or a Gainax-with-person-so-and-so achievement when (if) it becomes possible. Be it SHAFT alone or Gainax alone, I see no reason. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
** This is a case similar to the SHAFT one. There were a select few brains making Gainax good. Today they're with Khara or Trigger and Gainax is a ghost of itself. I'd sooner prefer an achievement on the creators that made Gainax good, or a Gainax-with-person-so-and-so achievement when (if) it becomes possible. Be it SHAFT alone or Gainax alone, I see no reason. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
*** The mixed creator thing isn't happening but I'm still against. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)




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* Around the achievements you have a coloured circle which looks fine in the beginning but after I reached lvl9 it became a ugly green circle or any other fill colour. I was thinking about 2 different things for completing achievements. 1) For obtainable achievements like watching all episodes from anime x you can have a "puzzle" system, so to see the full achievement you need to watch everything. (or cheat) 2) For almost impossible achievements (like watch all anime...) the circle would be fine, but when reaching maximum level using something else than a green circle, little stars or something like that. I just find the full circle ugle. --Ikus 13:08, 28 November 2013 (CET)
* Around the achievements you have a coloured circle which looks fine in the beginning but after I reached lvl9 it became a ugly green circle or any other fill colour. I was thinking about 2 different things for completing achievements. 1) For obtainable achievements like watching all episodes from anime x you can have a "puzzle" system, so to see the full achievement you need to watch everything. (or cheat) 2) For almost impossible achievements (like watch all anime...) the circle would be fine, but when reaching maximum level using something else than a green circle, little stars or something like that. I just find the full circle ugle. --Ikus 13:08, 28 November 2013 (CET)
** Okay, first things first: there isn't a set of impossible achievements and a set of possible ones; that's not how it works. Anime and creator achievements have 9 levels, mylist and statistical ones have 8, and one-time, special and mod ones have only one -- or no levels, alternatively. I don't know the internals, maybe it's possible to do more, but this is what we operate with currently. The last level of 9-level ones and the single-level ones have a "one-color circle", which is neither precisely one-color nor precisely a circle, but let's go with that for simplicity; the rest has a color progression. I don't particularly find the one-color circle ugly, personally, but we can think of alternatives. Now, something like little stars or whatever for is fine, I guess, but it has to be at the very least easily replicable for all achievements of the same kind (i.e. all creator achievements have the same set of little stars or whatever), because nobody is going to bother picking stuff to do what the circle does today for each and every current or new achievement. In contrast to the limited but existing feasibility of that, however, a puzzle system is much less likely to happen, not only because of the low replicability across different achievements but also because I'm pretty certain the system would require extensive rewrites, and that isn't going to happen any soon. We have more pressing limitations that aren't being addressed at current, either (search this page for Shinbou for more information). --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
** Okay, first things first: there isn't a set of impossible achievements and a set of possible ones; that's not how it works. Anime and creator achievements have 9 levels, mylist and statistical ones have 8, and one-time, special and mod ones have only one -- or no levels, alternatively. I don't know the internals, maybe it's possible to do more, but this is what we operate with currently. The last level of 9-level ones and the single-level ones have a "one-color circle", which is neither precisely one-color nor precisely a circle, but let's go with that for simplicity; the rest has a color progression. I don't particularly find the one-color circle ugly, personally, but we can think of alternatives. Now, something like little stars or whatever for is fine, I guess, but it has to be at the very least easily replicable for all achievements of the same kind (i.e. all creator achievements have the same set of little stars or whatever), because nobody is going to bother picking stuff to do what the circle does today for each and every current or new achievement. In contrast to the limited but existing feasibility of that, however, a puzzle system is much less likely to happen, not only because of the low replicability across different achievements but also because I'm pretty certain the system would require extensive rewrites, and that isn't going to happen any soon. We have more pressing limitations that aren't being addressed at current, either (search this page for Shinbou for more information). --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
*** Denied [[User:Ommina|the person in charge of the backend]], way too much work and not enough result. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 08:17, 1 February 2014 (CET)
*** Denied by [[User:Ommina|the person in charge of the backend]], way too much work and not enough result. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 08:17, 1 February 2014 (CET)




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** I doubt it's even implementable, and even if it is, many people simply use [[IRC:Chii|Chii]], and others added files back in the stone age of AniDB and don't have them anymore, and so on. I see way too many drawbacks. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
** I doubt it's even implementable, and even if it is, many people simply use [[IRC:Chii|Chii]], and others added files back in the stone age of AniDB and don't have them anymore, and so on. I see way too many drawbacks. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
*** Not to mention people might watch on TV, etc. Anyway, [[User:Ommina|the person in charge of the backend]] says it's impossible to do as that's not kept track of and it's not gonna start now. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 08:17, 1 February 2014 (CET)
*** Not to mention people might watch on TV, etc. Anyway, [[User:Ommina|the person in charge of the backend]] says it's impossible to do as that's not kept track of and it's not gonna start now. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 08:17, 1 February 2014 (CET)
* This references a talk in another section, CTRL+F for Shinbou or SHAFT for more info. Moved here because it's a dead feature request. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)
** TL;DR a list that took two creators into account or did any sort of creator math would have to be manually created. [[User:Ommina|ommina]] says it's not going to happen as an automatic feature without much work. Manually updating such a list is '''highly''' problematic because it requires a pretty high access level (file-based, no admin frontend to the system, one not happening this century despite my arguments in support of one) so it's not gonna happen either. Just below is an older talk to between worf and myself which is stored for reference purposes only since it's pretty useless by now. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)
*** You mean like [[Achievements_Dev/Shinbou-SHAFT_Achievement|this]]? :) --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 05:30, 28 February 2013 (CET)
**** Yeah, except your list isn't very useful. And keeping it up2date and feeding it to the achievement system automatically is also not going to work. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 22:56, 28 February 2013 (CET)
***** Yeah, uhh, do you want it done manually or automatically? If you say it needs to be done manually and then complain it won't work automatically, you're not making much sense. If the problem is I'm using names rather than IDs, however, that was simply how I had made the list back when I needed it; converting it to IDs is a bit on the annoying monkey work side, but it needs to be done just once and it's not a lot of entries anyway. I still would rather simply use some manner of query to make it all automatic (are you ''sure'' we can't get that to be automatic?), but hey, can't have a party every day. (If all else fails, just make a badge for either, or maybe one for each.) --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:02, 1 March 2013 (CET)
****** The problem is that the script responsible for the badges can't handle such complex cases. It can handle either "a list of AID", "all related anime to a given AID" or "all anime with a certain creditID for a given creatorID". So someone would have to provide a list of AIDs that would need to be hardcoded into the config. This method would mean that manual updating of the config is required - every time a new anime (or credit) gets added that would fall into this group. This is simply not practical (you remember the people complaining that some creator badges had a wrong count because some new anime wasn't included? That's why.) Of course this could be made automatic, like it was done for Creators. But you should be well aware of the problems that come with trying to kick other people into doing some work. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:16, 3 March 2013 (CET)
******* Yeah, there's a problem with that kicking people into work thing. I'm afraid I can't really help there. Can we have that sort of feature into a wishlist, if nothing else? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:25, 27 January 2014 (CET)
******** Just because people only check the last reply, I'll say again: feature not going to happen, use just one of the creators for now, or whatever really. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] ([[User talk:Hinoe|talk]]) 06:42, 10 February 2014 (CET)
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