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Talk:Shadow Files: Difference between revisions
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{{TOCright}} | |||
==Multi-level shadow-files== | ==Multi-level shadow-files== | ||
<div style="border: 1px solid; background-color: #f2f2f2; padding: 5px;"> | <div style="border: 1px solid; background-color: #f2f2f2; padding: 5px;"> | ||
<div style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #f9f9f9;"><tt> | <div style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #f9f9f9;"><tt> | ||
:<worf> | :<worf> aren't subtitle files supposed to be a sub-file of the actual video files?<br> | ||
:<worf> rather than being on the same level as them<br> | :<worf> rather than being on the same level as them<br> | ||
:<hrm> you might have a point there worf<br> | :<hrm> you might have a point there worf<br> | ||
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With worf's suggestion it would be like this: | With worf's suggestion it would be like this: | ||
<div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 482px;">http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/worf-shadow-subs-split.png</div></div> | <div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 482px;">http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/worf-shadow-subs-split.png</div></div> | ||
And I | And I have to say that worf's is the most intuitive of them. Basically every single file in the DB, would in and of themselves actually be shadow-files, having the ability to have sub-files and/or parent-files. Note that I use plural here - restricting parent- and sub-files to only one per file would be bad. RAWs would only be able to have one single subtitle file, while in actuality, there are lots of RAWs that have more than one version of a subtitle file, and also, subtitle files would only be able to be associated with one single RAW, while they usually work with more than one (not to mention the "separate subtitles for many episodes" case (see below)). Note also that if ordinary files were in fact shadow-files, this would make the extra abstraction layer found in this: | ||
<div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 304px;">[[Image:Shadow-normal.png|none]]</div></div> | <div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 304px;">[[Image:Shadow-normal.png|none]]</div></div> | ||
be unnecessary. | be unnecessary. | ||
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Worf's version does however raise the question about what to do with separate subtitles for many episodes, and I assume the result would be something like this: | Worf's version does however raise the question about what to do with separate subtitles for many episodes, and I assume the result would be something like this: | ||
<div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 355px;">http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/worf-shadow-subs-manysubsinone.png</div></div> | <div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 355px;">http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/worf-shadow-subs-manysubsinone.png</div></div> | ||
As you can see here, the actual | As you can see here, the actual RAWs do not need shadow-files to encompass them, since in this case it's one raw for each episode. | ||
Still, when it comes to split-episodes the "original" verision of the shadow-files is necessary - you need the abstraction layer there. | Still, when it comes to split-episodes the "original" verision of the shadow-files is necessary - you need the abstraction layer there. | ||
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:<pelican> A further consideration: subtitles must be available even if no other file for the episode or episodes they represent is | :<pelican> A further consideration: subtitles must be available even if no other file for the episode or episodes they represent is | ||
</tt></div> | </tt></div> | ||
This would take care of this concern that pelican had. | This would take care of this concern that pelican had. At least in my opinion. He did have a rather different approach to the problem than what is described here, and as I don't understand it fully, I can only hope that he will describe it properly himself. | ||
---- | ---- | ||
Oh wait, I just realized that I didn't explain this part properly: "<tt>and be assigned to however many other files is necessary.</tt>"<br> | Oh wait, I just realized that I didn't explain this part properly: "<tt>and be assigned to however many other files is necessary.</tt>"<br> | ||
What I mean is that ''other RAWs for the same episode can usually use the same subs'', so the files would | What I mean is that ''other RAWs for the same episode can usually use the same subs'', so the files would have to be able to have many "parent" files, and the same subs should also be listed properly under the actual episode for those who just want the subs and don't need/already have/only want to steal/whatever can see that the episode actually has separate subs. | ||
</div> | </div> | ||
: | :{{small90|Hope this is actually helpful to some ppl, so I'm not just blowing off steam on a non-issue >_<}} ... I do feel that this needs a more proper going through, if exp agrees or not, I have no clue. It also seems unclear (at least to me) whether exp has decided on an actual design when it comes to shadow-files or if that is still up for discussion; there seems to be a few people who still has something to say about that, but at least PetriW did seem to [http://www.anidb.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7294#7294 describe] the first of the shadow-files versions described here. | ||
<div style="text-align: right;">--[[User:Suppy|Suppy]] 02:20, 18 February 2006 (CET)</div> | <div style="text-align: right;">--[[User:Suppy|Suppy]] 02:20, 18 February 2006 (CET)</div> | ||
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<div style="border: 1px solid; background-color: #f2f2ff; padding: 5px;"> | <div style="border: 1px solid; background-color: #f2f2ff; padding: 5px;"> | ||
pelican later came with a rather different suggestion...<br> | pelican later came with a rather different suggestion...<br> | ||
{{small90|paraphrased...}} | |||
<div style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #f9f9f9;"><tt> | <div style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #f9f9f9;"><tt> | ||
:<pelican> The problem with subtitle association isn't the db structure (I could draw it in a minute if, um... if I could be bothered), it's the interface | :<pelican> The problem with subtitle association isn't the db structure (I could draw it in a minute if, um... if I could be bothered), it's the interface | ||
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:<pelican> Have fun. | :<pelican> Have fun. | ||
:<pelican> Oh, and even if exp implements shadow files (unlikely), subtitle association on top of that is probably more work than he's up for | :<pelican> Oh, and even if exp implements shadow files (unlikely), subtitle association on top of that is probably more work than he's up for | ||
:<pelican> In case you're interested, the best structure is probably to have episode collections, which uniquely represent sets of episodes that shadow files use, put another layer on top of that representing same timing of an episode set and have subtitles act the same as normal files; you can group shadow files under one timing group with a mod change or (since this is an imaginary | :<pelican> In case you're interested, the best structure is probably to have episode collections, which uniquely represent sets of episodes that shadow files use, put another layer on top of that representing same timing of an episode set and have subtitles act the same as normal files; you can group shadow files under one timing group with a mod change or (since this is an imaginary AniDB without the restrictions of the current) creq | ||
:<pelican> ...hope that line wasn't too long for the server | :<pelican> ...hope that line wasn't too long for the server | ||
:<pelican> All shadow files are then associated with a timing group | :<pelican> All shadow files are then associated with a timing group | ||
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We'll begin with the basic ''Separate subtitles for one episode'' example: | We'll begin with the basic ''Separate subtitles for one episode'' example: | ||
<div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 654px;">http://xs69.xs.to/pics/06082/groups-subs-normal.png</div></div> | <div style="width: auto; overflow: hidden;"><div style="border:1px solid #cccccc; padding: 3px; background-color:#f9f9f9; width: 654px;">http://xs69.xs.to/pics/06082/groups-subs-normal.png</div></div> | ||
Here you can have any number of | Here you can have any number of RAW files and subtitle files, as long as they're timed "for each other". | ||
There is one problem that I haven't been able to figure out how to solve with this method, and that is: '''How to fix the "many subs in one file" problem.''' I asked pelican about it:<br> | There is one problem that I haven't been able to figure out how to solve with this method, and that is: '''How to fix the "many subs in one file" problem.''' I asked pelican about it:<br> | ||
{{small90|paraphrased (boldness added for focusing your eyes)}} | |||
<div style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #f9f9f9;"><tt> | <div style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #f9f9f9;"><tt> | ||
:<hrm> hmm, with your episode sets and timed episode sets - how do you solve the "many subs in one file" problem illustrated here: | :<hrm> hmm, with your episode sets and timed episode sets - how do you solve the "many subs in one file" problem illustrated here: [[Image:Current-subs-manysubsinone.png]] | ||
:<hrm> I'm trying to illustrate the example of having a rar or zip file that contains many subs for more than one episode | :<hrm> I'm trying to illustrate the example of having a rar or zip file that contains many subs for more than one episode | ||
[...] | [...] | ||
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:This way of doing things doesn't solve ''everything'', however it is a much cleaner way of fixing the shadow-files, and it solves most of the problems we currently have. A very viable option. | :This way of doing things doesn't solve ''everything'', however it is a much cleaner way of fixing the shadow-files, and it solves most of the problems we currently have. A very viable option. | ||
<div style="text-align: right;">--[[User:Suppy|Suppy]] 10:46, 21 February 2006 (CET)</div> | <div style="text-align: right;">--[[User:Suppy|Suppy]] 10:46, 21 February 2006 (CET)</div> | ||
<div style="border: 1px solid; background-color: #f2f2ff; padding: 5px;"> | |||
[[Image:Shadowfile draft.PNG]] | |||
This draft should contain all possible cases but one. Split files (''Episode 0x Part 1'' & ''Episode 0x Part 2'') with both .sub and .idx subtitle files. We'd have to group the two split files under one ''shadow file'' but what to do with the four ''subtitle files''? Grouping all four of them under one ''shadow file'' under the same ''timed group'' wouldn't be practical as we couldn't be sure which pair belongs to which split file. | |||
</div> | |||
<div style="text-align: right;">--[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:56, 22 February 2006 (CET)</div> | |||
==Current DB Structure== | |||
Well, I thought it might benefit this topic to have a short description of the current DB structure. The relations look like this: (>-< N:M, -< 1:N, >- N:1) | |||
Anime -< Episode -< File -< Stream | |||
However, there are two additional relations as workarounds: | |||
File >-< File | |||
To allow things like File-to-Subtitle relations, Files which form a unit or files which represent a newer version of another file. | |||
Episode >-< File | |||
To allow files which span multiple episodes or files which span only part of an episode. The main relation remains Episode -< File mainly for performance reasons. Only a small subset of the files in the DB belong to more than one EP. | |||
--[[User:Exp|Exp]] 03:56, 3 March 2006 (CET) | |||