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Talk:Achievements Dev/Archive: Difference between revisions
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{{delete|Nothing of relevance still hidden here; everything's been already migrated to the new article. And in the event it hasn't, nobody will bother looking here anyway...}} | |||
= Open ideas / comments = | |||
---- | * "Achievement" badge for having numerous stalled and/or dropped entries. --[[User:Xenodor|Xenodor]] 15:17, 19 February 2012 (CET) | ||
** Why the hell would you want that? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 16:51, 20 February 2012 (CET) | |||
* Adding and ranking anime/character tags --unknown author | |||
** I don't like this idea. Too many crappy tags already. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:31, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||
* Number of anime watched before the birthdate of the user --unknown author | |||
* Number of anime watched from the childhood of the user (4-16 years since birthdate) --unknown author | |||
** I frankly think those two are rather bad, as this is inherently biased (yearly production varies; a 30 year old user and a 16 year old one will have wildly different amounts to watch...). In addition, privacy-concerned users will have one less badge to show off, as many avoid putting their birth date. You won't find mine on AniDB. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:31, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||
* Adding lexicon articles --unknown author | |||
** Though DerIdiot is trying to work on some new better version of categories/tags/lexicon; may thus be redundant at some point in time? --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 18:55, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
*** In that case, we might put this idea on hold until the idea of how a new system would be takes shape. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:46, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
*** Ok, I was thinking about this, and I ''really'' think the way Lexicon works now is mostly ok. While yes, the cat/tag/ctag/crtag system needs to change, I think Lexicon itself is ok. Lexicon entries are quite well-moderated (requiring add creqs and stuff), they need the user to actually work (while not requiring them to know japanese or any such difficulties related to adding creators, adding anime, etc; just some common sense and a brain should generally suffice), and, most importantly, they help create higher quality tags by promoting integration, etc, not to mention the pic. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:31, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||
* Converted credits --unknown author | |||
** Can someone explain to me what this is? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:34, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||
* [http://anidb.net/tag111 World Masterpiece Theater] series anime watched --unknown author | |||
** I like this one a lot. They're not linked closely like other creator/show badges, but it makes sense because the brand name has its own touch and is generally based off classic literature. Culture never hurts. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:46, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* Creating a popular club (eg 50+ members) --unknown author | |||
* Let's not forget a [http://anidb.net/cr2 Wakamoto] badge. --Chroniko on IRC | |||
** I figure the Wakamoto one would be a problem, but we might want it for the lulz if nothing else. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 04:14, 17 January 2012 (CET) | |||
*** Just to clarify, but the lulz regarding Wakamoto is how meme-spawning he is inside the anime community. It's really the kind of thing non-watchers would never, ever understand. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:47, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** Seiyuu in general might be limited to at least secondary cast. No use for the listing of all Wakamoto walk-on parts. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 04:14, 17 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* we should have a lolicon badge (amount of pedo anime watched) --DarkIndy13 on IRC | |||
** I suggest that duck from Moetan for the lolicon badge. Pedobear is just too overused. --[[User:Indy13|Indy13]] 10:26, 17 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** If there is a loli badge, I want a shota badge to match :P . --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 12:05, 17 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* How about adding an Anime Achievement for "Award Anime" watched? (The anime which have received Awards, as listed on AniDB)? --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 16:28, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** I really like this one too. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:46, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** On second thought, maybe I don't like it as much. Community awards are often given to mediocre and overrated shows. It doesn't make sense to give awards to Top 10 shows. What remains are things like the Mainichi Awards, which isn't that relevant for western viewers. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:56, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
*** I'm not that familiar with the awards myself, but why would the Mainichi awards not be relevant? Not all anime categories/creator categories are relevant for everyone either; it's just a way to grouop anime? --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 08:13, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
**** The idea is that the Mainichi awards and similar are fairly obscure on this side of the Europe-Asia division (or, alternatively, this side of the Pacific -- whichever works best for you). Of course, I have nothing ''against'' adding them; I just wonder about their actual usefulness. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:31, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||
*** This would only be good if we'd have official awards present (like Mainichi, but I don't even know if that one is up to date), for ARC awards I'd have to say no. --[[User:Nwa|Nwa]] 21:28, 21 January 2012 (CET) | |||
**** I've added the missing Mainichi Awards a few days ago --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 23:00, 21 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* In regards to additional suggestiond for "Adding X of Y" badges, how about "Adding X Anime Staff"? Unlike the other suggestions, anime staff is rather well moderated and only a select number of people do it (like anime & creator adds are moderated by requiring a creq). --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 21:26, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** Do you mean that only a select number of people add staff, or only a select number deal with creqs in that area? I'm somewhat lost. Also, by ads you meant adds, right? --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:47, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
*** Only a select number of people add staff. "ads" should've been adds indeed, sorry. There should be very few/none anime staff add/edit creqs as anyone working on them almost automatically gets the needed rights. Otherwise, creqs would be created in mass volumes... --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 08:13, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* "Category" based badges (where the max level is a certain % seen of all animes with that category). --Arcturon&Msr on IRC | |||
** We already have this for porn, which at the end of the day is a category, so why the hell not. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:31, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||
* Staff's selection badges (each mod personally picks ~10 anime which are grouped for his personal selection badge). --Arcturon on IRC | |||
** I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on nwa's considerations on this matter (ctrl+f grim outlook). --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:31, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||
= Accepted ideas = | |||
* [http://anidb.net/cr818 Rumiko Takahashi] badge! -- BartS on IRC | |||
** Added. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:28, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* Add: [http://anidb.net/cr1107 Leiji's anime] watched. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:41, 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** Leiji's anime: same as the logh comment --[[User:msr|msr]] , 15:31 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** Added. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:25, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* Add: [http://anidb.net/cr1195 Tezuka Osamu's anime] watched. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:41, 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** Tezuka Osamu's Anime: Same as logh comment --[[User:msr|msr]] , 15:31 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** Added. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:25, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* Add: [http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=rel&aid=584 Legend of Galactic Heroes] watched. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:41, 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** This one was already semi-denied, but I'd still like it considered since it's a franchise bigger than average, highly complex, filled with hundreds of characters, old as dirt (all of the aforementioned disliked by the average anime watcher, who would rather skip those and watch recent short no-brainer tsundere loli shows with Kugimiya Rie voicing the "urusai, urusai, urusai!" lead), and still a top 10 show. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:41, 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** If we can have Pokemon, Digimon, and Dragon Ball, we can bloody well have LOGH. --[[User:Ommina|ommina]] 13:49, 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** I think a LOGH badge is not a bad idea. It is certainly special enough to be considered and I for one would applaud the use of badges to encourage watching old / obscure / rare / gems anime. --[[User:msr|msr]] , 15:31 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
** Added. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 00:25, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
= Denied ideas = | |||
* | * Adding episodes/files/characters/song/collections/groups --unknown author | ||
** Not gonna happen. Statwhoring by adding useless/crappy/incomplete entries is too likely. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 17:41, 16 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* | |||
* | |||
= Hinoe's ideas for this feature = | = Hinoe's ideas for this feature = | ||
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=== On the current list of achievements === | === On the current list of achievements === | ||
* Statistical achievements: | * Statistical achievements: | ||
** Edit: Granted creqs: add a second special constraint. | ** Edit: Granted creqs: add a second special constraint. | ||
| Line 89: | Line 107: | ||
== Responses to pass #1 == | == Responses to pass #1 == | ||
* Statistical Achievements: | * Statistical Achievements: | ||
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--[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:29, 17 January 2012 (CET) | --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 02:29, 17 January 2012 (CET) | ||
---- | |||
What are the restrictions for Anime Achievements? Bleach is around 350 episodes, Naruto in total is over 400. Yu Gi Ou has at least 550 episodes. Battle Spirits seems something similar to Yu Gi Ou (though I have never seen it, so cannot be sure). If it is, they could even be combined into watching 'card battle animes'? Beyblade has reached some 250 eps, maybe a bit too small for the achievements. I'm sure there are other anime like this; lesser known than Bleach/OP/... but also ongoing for quite a while now. --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 15:50, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
---- | |||
Apparently "not being a derp show" (phrase it as you like) is a restriction. Ask worf for details, apparently he vetoes those. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 16:18, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
== Pass #2 == | == Pass #2 == | ||
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--[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 12:20, 17 January 2012 (CET) | --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 12:20, 17 January 2012 (CET) | ||
Later addition: | |||
* Genre packs | |||
** Adventure: While I don't know the anime Master Keaton, this category kinda overlaps though. 12K is also adventure, the Tales Of ... series generally are as well. Seirei no Moribito too. | |||
** Horror: Mix of Horror and Gore? Can include Mnemosyne then. | |||
** Shounen Ai and Shoujo Ai genres as well? That said, I don't know enough anime to provide with proper lists of anime. | |||
--[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 12:30, 17 January 2012 (CET) | |||
---- | |||
* IRC: | |||
** Ommina's point below regarding IRC badges is interesting. Shitenshi's spamming point is also a problem. | |||
-- Hinoe (forgot to sign) | |||
---- | |||
After reading the comments here I think I can go ahead and make these packs happen. I will update them to have enough titles. I will try and get some input on irc for this. | |||
--[[User:msr|msr]] 12:00 21 January 2012 (CET) | |||
== Pass #2 == | == Pass #2 == | ||
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Consecutive days watching anime might be impossible to implement, and most likely cheating-prone. | Consecutive days watching anime might be impossible to implement, and most likely cheating-prone. | ||
--[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 01:41, 17 January 2012 (CET) | --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 01:41, 17 January 2012 (CET) | ||
---- | |||
Consecutive days watching anime: how about adding a maximum? For example, level 8 would be watching at least one episode (also define episode, do specials/T/C count?) per day for 3 months. Sure cheating is possible, but people adding every possible anime to their mylist are cheating just the same... --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 12:13, 17 January 2012 (CET) | Consecutive days watching anime: how about adding a maximum? For example, level 8 would be watching at least one episode (also define episode, do specials/T/C count?) per day for 3 months. Sure cheating is possible, but people adding every possible anime to their mylist are cheating just the same... --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 12:13, 17 January 2012 (CET) | ||
---- | |||
IRC talking. Come on. These are badges for ''anime'', not talking in an IRC channel the contents of which typically only touch on anime by accident. To say nothing of the technical limitation of trying to match up IRC nicks (Chii authenticated or not) with site nicks, and completely ignoring the fact that Tessa's data is on a private connection, and not accessible by the collector (hitherto known as Badgers). | |||
I could do category-based badges, but, like Shitenshi, have some concerns over privacy. (Anal badge at level 8, horray!) --[[User:Ommina|ommina]] 07:46, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
* lol @ anal badge. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 15:05, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
== Pass #2 == | == Pass #2 == | ||
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** <s>What's the collector? Making a thread there? I'm fairly sure I never made a thread there, but I'm well over 2k posts and I replied to a few thread in that forum. Never too late, I guess... I'll make a mental note to get around to it some time or other. :D</s> | ** <s>What's the collector? Making a thread there? I'm fairly sure I never made a thread there, but I'm well over 2k posts and I replied to a few thread in that forum. Never too late, I guess... I'll make a mental note to get around to it some time or other. :D</s> | ||
*** The collector is the script that actually pulls all the statistics out of the database. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 12:03, 17 January 2012 (CET) | *** The collector is the script that actually pulls all the statistics out of the database. --[[User:Worf|Worf]] 12:03, 17 January 2012 (CET) | ||
**** Sorry, I meant to ask what the collector does for the introduction badge. This weird question was the result of me splitting the introduction badge line into two. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 14:56, 18 January 2012 (CET) | |||
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--[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 03:21, 17 January 2012 (CET), added a question @ 03:54, derped a few times over afterwards, etc. | --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 03:21, 17 January 2012 (CET), added a question @ 03:54, derped a few times over afterwards, etc. | ||
---- | |||
I like the possibility of hiding individual badges (or badges altogether). Some users may not want the achievements on their user page. Others might just not like specific ones. (Or for example, if a Genre badge is implemented, the user has watched enough of that genre to get a level of the badge; however have little intention of watching the other anime part of the genre. And decide to exclude the incomplete achievement from his userpage). --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 12:26, 17 January 2012 (CET) | |||
Update from via IRC: | |||
[17:57:02] <worf> an option to show or hide certain ones will surely not be implemented<br /> | |||
[17:57:49] <worf> i might add an option to disable display of badges for oneself and an option to disable your own badges so noone else can see them<br /> | |||
[17:58:09] <worf> but it will always affect all badges<br /> | |||
--[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 18:17, 18 January 2012 (CET) (Gah, wiki styling for new lines?) | |||
---- | |||
Not having per-badge hiding options is ok and all, but it's necessary to at least respect the already existing profile options. For instance, hiding your files currently hides your mylist size (iirc anyway), hence it should hide your mylist size badge regardless of the hide badges option; likewise, if you hide your from non-buddies, all porn-related badges have to disappear for non-buddies; etc. I believe it would be doable without tons of effort if you can reuse the DB code that checks for userpage/mylist/etc content displaying permission in general, but that's just my guess there. | |||
--[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 03:26, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
Agreed. Badges need to follow user preferences already defined. If "see my porn" is set to "no one", then a happy badge featuring pixelated tentacles and a convenient tooltip listing the number of episodes of porn watched is an outright bug. I would expect other permission settings to be respected as well. Which is not to say that ''new'' permissions will be created to pick and choose - madness that way lay. But we need to respect the user's privacy with what tools are already present. --[[User:Ommina|ommina]] 06:35, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
= BartS' random feedback = | |||
* I'm not happy with the '''user rank''' levels. First of all, why is it called "'''''user'' rank'''" when the average user without any secondary level won't get one? Right now it should be called "staff rank" or something. | |||
My suggestions for the levels are the following: | |||
Level 1: user | |||
Level 2: user + secondary | |||
Level 3: Adv. user | |||
Level 4: Adv. user + maintainer (language verifiers and mod report-checkers should be grouped with level 3) | |||
Level 5: Adv. user + creq handler | |||
Level 6: mod | |||
Level 7: senior mod | |||
Level 8: admin | |||
* While I'm at it: I also think the numbers for '''eps in mylist ''', '''files in mylist ''', '''watched eps''' and '''size of mylist''' are too low compared to '''anime in mylist'''. I mean, 5000 anime are like 100000 eps (depending on the movie/ova portion). Anyway, the '''Mylist Achievments'''[http://wiki.anidb.net/w/Achievements#Mylist_Achievements] need some adjustment IMO. | |||
== Replies to BartS' feedback == | |||
* The point about user rank makes sense. Previously, non-sub users got level 1 or perhaps 2 (maybe sub users got 1, can't remember). I'm not sure if we should rename it staff rank or change the levels. It depends on what was first intended. | |||
--[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 03:19, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
---- | |||
* As for the numbers for mylist achievements, I agree that the anime numbers are high in comparison with the rest. I just checked the stats and made averages: 222 MB per file and 18.0 eps per anime. I'd say we should go with 15 or so eps per anime (I think AniDB's stats for episodes count S/C/T/P/O episodes, hence why 15 instead of 18), 1 file per ep (you have redundant files? good for you...) and 250 MB per file in the calculation of what's a good badge number. Also, using roriconfan's fake stats as a good time wasted approximation, I calculated that 730 days is roughly equivalent to a bit over 40 thousand episodes. That averages to 26.3 minutes per episode, which sounds decent if we consider that movies are normally longer. 25 minutes sounds like a good approximation. What I make of this is detailed below. Feedback on the numbers? | |||
** Eps in mylist, watched eps, files in mylist: keep as is. | |||
** Size of mylist: Something between 200 and 250 MB per episode; exact number yet to be decided. | |||
** Time wasted: 25 mins per episode (just make 25 * number of episodes in the level). | |||
** Anime in mylist: Something between 15 and 20 eps per anime, likely 15-18; exact number yet to be decided. | |||
--[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 03:19, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
---- | |||
* I agree that some numbers need tweaking, most of all the Time Watched/Wasted, since it's very out-of-whack with the others. While random suggestions are popping up; could we figure out a badge for real collectors (aka those who want more than just the episodes, but look for all available specials, trailers, ... as well)? Then again, such a badge would more likely be a percentage of eps in mylist over the total number of eps in the anime in mylist; than one with levels where getting X files would bring you to level Y... --[[User:Shitenshi|Shitenshi]] 08:23, 19 January 2012 (CET) | |||
= nwa's grim outlook = | |||
I don't approve of achievements based on a list generated by random users, cause that's what we all are. What exactly would this badge represent, that you've watched the selected anime from certain genre, picked by other anime fans. I don't see the point in that. I've also seen the classic anime badge, and isn't it the same thing? Classic by whose definition? Ours? I'd much rather have badges based on (mostly) factual data or based on opinions of something official (the awards given in official events in Japan). | |||
* That's a fairly good point. I'd like to hear everyone else's opinion on it. --[[User:Hinoe|Hinoe]] 09:03, 17 February 2012 (CET) | |||