Talk:Shadow Files

<worf> arent subtitle files supposed to be a sub-file of the actual video files?

<worf> rather than being on the same level as them

<hrm> you might have a point there worf

<pelican> Linking subtitles to just one video file is stupid; any number makes more sense, but I'm not terribly keen on it anyway

<hrm> worf, but that would make the regular files a kind of shadow-files as well... I assumed we would keep with the current structure of the regular files, and just add the abstraction-layer of the shadow-files

<hrm> ah yeah, what pelican said is also a point

<worf> thats something i cant comment on

<pelican> Normally if you implement this kind of abstraction layer, you make it universal

<pelican> It's how relational databases work

<worf> yeah

[...]

<pelican> So basically... yes, you can restrict shadow files to files which need them, but it's probably going to be less efficient and it's certainly more code

I did a little thinking on this, and I think worf's suggestion holds merit. Consider the following scenario: Two split-episode files are raw, and they have subs. Currently this would look like this:

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/current-subs-split.png

With my current suggestion for shadow-files, it would be like the following picture:

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/shadow-subs-split.png

With worf's suggestion it would be like this:

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/worf-shadow-subs-split.png

And I haveto say that worf's is the most intuitive of them. Basically every single file in the DB, would in and of themselves actually be shadow-files, having the ability to have sub-files and/or parent-files. Note that I use plural here - restricting parent- and sub-files to only one per file would be bad. RAWs would only be able to have one single subtitle file, while in actuality, there are lots of RAWs that have more than one version of a subtitle file, and also, subtitle files would only be able to be associated with one single RAW, while they usually work with more than one (not to mention the "separate subtitles for many episodes" case (see below)). Note also that if ordinary files were in fact shadow-files, this would make the extra abstraction layer found in this:

be unnecessary.

Worf's version does however raise the question about what to do with separate subtitles for many episodes, and I assume the result would be something like this:

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06075/worf-shadow-subs-manysubsinone.png

As you can see here, the actual raws do not need shadow-files to encompass them, since in this case it's one raw for each episode.

Still, when it comes to split-episodes the "original" verision of the shadow-files is necessary - you need the abstraction layer there.

I wasn't exactly sure where to put this discussion, but I figured this would be the best place for it. Maybe I should have posted to forum or something instead, but imo, the wiki works better for this.

--Suppy 03:17, 17 February 2006 (CET)

Also another case which would be relatively weird if you didn't have multi-layered support: .sub/.idx combinations for split episode files. Let me illustrate: Currently:

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06076/current-subs-split-subandidx.png

With original shadow-files:

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06076/shadow-subs-split-subandidx.png

With worf's shadow-files:

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06076/worf-shadow-subs-split-subandidx.png

As you can see, this would require that every file be able to have files under it and be assigned to however many other files is necessary.

<pelican> A further consideration: subtitles must be available even if no other file for the episode or episodes they represent is

This would take care of this concern that pelican had. Atleast in my opinion. He did have a rather different approach to the problem than what is described here, and as I don't understand it fully, I can only hope that he will describe it properly himself.

---

Oh wait, I just realized that I didn't explain this part properly: "and be assigned to however many other files is necessary."
What I mean is that other RAWs for the same episode can usually use the same subs, so the files would haveto be able to have many "parent" files, and the same subs should also be listed properly under the actual episode for those who just want the subs and don't need/already have/only want to steal/whatever can see that the episode actually has separate subs.

hope this is actually helpful to some ppl, so I'm not just blowing off steam on a non-issue >_< ... I do feel that this needs a more proper going through, if exp agrees or not, I have no clue. It also seems unclear (atleast to me) whether exp has decided on an actual design when it comes to shadow-files or if that is still up for discussion; there seems to be a few people who still has something to say about that, but atleast PetriW did seem to describe the first of the shadow-files versions described here.

--Suppy 02:20, 18 February 2006 (CET)